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An interview with Watergate whistleblower John W Dean

by Jackie Randles

Watergate whistleblower and former White House Counsel John W Dean knows what happens behind closed doors in a corrupt administration. Recently in Sydney as a guest of the Sydney Writers Festival, John Dean shared his thoughts about ethics, power and crossing the line with Jackie Randles.

JR: Why is it that people in positions of immense power willingly choose to behave unethically - is it simply lack of leadership from the top or blind ambition?

JD: To narrow the focus, I'll largely address unethical uses of, or behaviour by those in, political power, the field with which I am most familiar. In that area I can say that I have never found a single or simple explanation for unethical behaviour - with one general exception. Those who knowingly engage in obvious unethical behaviour typically believe that they will never get caught, or that the rules do not apply to them.

Needless to say, the cause of unethical behaviour depends on the particular situation. For example, those involved in corporate corruption are typically driven by greed. But greed can also corrupt those with political power. Lust for more power - as well as sexual lust - are known to result in unethical behaviour by the powerful as well. I reject the idea that power per se corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

JR: Do you think that powerful people often do things they know are wrong because of a sincere belief that they are acting for the greater good? Is this an excuse?

JD: Obviously, President Bill Clinton's behaviour in the Oval Office with Monica Lewinsky was not undertaken for any ‘greater good’. However, Clinton may well have believed that his later lying about his conduct served a greater good, and that by doing so he was not only protecting his wife and family from hurt, but that he was protecting the presidency from the zealous prosecutor invading his personal life.

For a more portentous situation, President George Bush is not the first American President to lie to Americans and the nations of the world about the reasons for going to war. President Lyndon Johnson did it with Vietnam. I have little doubt both men thought they were acting for the ‘greater good’. And that they acted unethically sincerely believing they were acting in good faith. But, at best, they were clearly deluding themselves when deceiving others.

JR: How important are organisational cultures themselves in ensuring ethical behaviour?

JD: Based on my experience, they are very important - if not vital and at times determinative. Organisations with an ethical ethos infuse their members with a principled attitude, not to mention the organisation's moral view. This question and my answer, of course, raises the question of what is an ethical culture. Suffice it to say it is not a 'religious' belief and atmosphere, for I believe religion is distinct from morals and ethics, and sadly, just as there are many unethical political organisations, so too are their such religious organisations. Rather, it is a culture with moral mindfulness and conscience.

JR: When speaking about your experiences during the Nixon era, you describe how overwhelming and alluring power can be, particularly for young people. How do exciting and dazzling trappings of power motivate people to willingly cross the line?

JD: Whether a person is young and impressionable, or old and impressionable, the trappings of power often have two influences: one is deception and the other coercion. Let me explain. Take the President of the United States, who is surrounded by more symbols of power than any monarch the world has ever known, from the great 747 airplane that is Air Force One to his luxurious helicopters and the retinue of Secret Service agents that always hover near him, even in the White House. More than trappings, however, a President's power is real. With the jotting of a pen in his hand he can issue orders that can change the world for better or worse.

When dealing with such a figure, one can be deceived because it is difficult to envision that the man to whom all this power has been given by the American people would do anything other than what was in the best interest of all Americans, if not the world. It is easy to find a wisdom in such a powerful figure that may or may not exist. This is the deceptive side of power.

I can tell you from personal experience, it takes repeated dealings with such a figure to realise that he is just another man. The coercive side is that people quickly learn that when they serve 'at the pleasure' of the powerful, they can be removed if they find themselves in displeasure. This knowledge has a very coercive influence. In short, if you don't do it, someone else will, and you will be found useless. Again, let me say that from personal experience, it is better to understand that you might serve power better by refusing to undertake actions which you know are wrong.

JR: How often have you seen people at the height of power speak out against corrupt behaviour at risk of their own positions?

JD: Only seldom. Watergate provided several examples. When President Nixon decided to fire the special prosecutor, Archibald Cox, who insisted on investigating the President by demanding that he turn over his secretly recorded tapes pursuant to a subpoena issued by the Court, he was fired. However, Nixon's Attorney General, who was the nominal superior of the Special Prosecutor, refused to do so, as did his Deputy. Principled resignations are rare in the US Government, but occasionally they do occur. They should be more frequent.

JR: What do you think about the notion of ethical leadership training?

JD: Ethical training keeps those who receive it sensitive to the issues. While it can never solve the problem of making anyone moral or ethical, it sure can't hurt. But I am with Hugh Mackay in believing that "our values spring from" our communities. Mr Mackay writes in Right & Wrong that our moral values come "directly from the experience of leaning how to live with other people - a process that begins in infancy when we gradually and painfully learn that we are not located at the centre of the universe." In short, ethical training is a life-long process, and it is difficult to believe anyone could learn too much.

Widely known for his role in the Nixon administration, John W Dean's book Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W Bush has recently been published by Hardie Grant Books. Other books by John Dean include Blind Ambition, The Rehnquist Choice and a biography of former president Warren G Harding.

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