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 Post subject: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2013 12:34 
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I went to the cafe last week and passed by the meandering smokers nearby. It got me thinking about our comparative dependencies. Nicotine is (commonly) derived from smoking tobacco with a number of other toxic substances; caffeine is distilled from roasted beans (among others methods, but usually consumed). Could an ethical approach to nicotine dependence (a la caffeine) help eliminate more toxic delivery methods?

I'm well aware that ethical nicotine "treatments" are common (lozenges, patches). They are marketed as a way to wean people off nicotine an thereby tobacco. A sub-question could be the acceptance of ethical nicotine dependence. ie. Could nicotine dependence be made socially acceptable?

I can't discuss the science (I'm no scientist), but but the prevailing view seems to be that nicotine on it's own is not a carcinogen. For this I reference the Mayo clinic "Many people mistakenly believe that nicotine causes cancer, but that's not the case. Nicotine replacement medications, including patches, gum, lozenges, nasal spray and inhaler, can help relieve difficult withdrawal symptoms and cravings" http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/nicotine-dependence/DS00307/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs However here is the wikipedia extract that show various views - others can pick that up if they wish.

Quote:
Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form or assigned it to an official carcinogen group. While no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer (on the contrary, a mechanism of urinary excretion of nicotine metabolites was identified as the link between smoking and bladder cancer [73]), research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.[74][75] Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[76] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[77]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[78][79] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase).[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2013 21:15 
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Christophe

I don't know about an ethical dependence, but nicotine was used as a pesticide in agriculture in years past. So i don't know if long term dependence, either ethicla or unethical is really healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2013 12:09 
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MAWIMike wrote:
Christophe
I don't know about an ethical dependence, but nicotine was used as a pesticide in agriculture in years past. So i don't know if long term dependence, either ethicla or unethical is really healthy.


Caffeine/alcohol are also pesticides, along with many other natural consumable substances.
http://www.omg-facts.com/Science/Caffei ... cide/31632


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2013 21:24 
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I saw a report on the news last night that was making the claim that a family of nicotine containing pesticides is responsible for losses in the honeybee population over the last couple years.


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013 09:55 
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Thanks MAWIMike. While I couldn't find anything on honeybees, your point directed me to some useful information.

1. Nicotine (and derivatives) were banned from use as insecticide, because it was toxic to mammals (eg. US!!!)

2. Nicotine is more toxic than any other alkaloids, including cocaine. Wikipedia says: "It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time. Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact."

3. Nicotine is more addictive than cocaine and heroin.

On those grounds alone I think it fair to say that it i not possible to have any ethical dependence on nicotine.

There are also far more differences between nicotine and caffeine than I first presumed. While both are Alkaloids, caffeine simulates the central nervous system and metabolism, where as nicotine has a direct affect on dopamine regulation. The toxicity of both (for humans) is also quite different.

All the more reason to scorn the smokers I pass on the way to the cafe. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013 21:33 
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Found this link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/2 ... 79959.html

"Neonicotinoids, which are chemically similar to nicotine, have already been shown to interfere with bees' capacity to learn scents, hampering their efforts to collect food.

Colony collapse disorder -- which follows a "sudden loss of a colony’s worker bee population," according to the Environmental Protection Agency -- may be relatively new. It first surfaced around 2005, the New York Times explains, but has gotten dramatically worse in the past year."

The print report differs bit from the TV news report in that it says they are similar to nicotine as opposed to being derived from nicotine.

There was a short thread in another forum on a dangerous addictive substance

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29352&hilit=dihydrogen


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2013 18:09 
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Interestingly this subject also cam up on a friends Facebook feed, citing the following article.
http://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

As for Dihydrogen monoxide, I can't get enough of the stuff. If I could I'ld immerse myself in it. Makes my mouth dry just thinking about it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Could there be ethical dependence on Niccotine
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2013 05:13 
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Chris

If wikopedia is accurate, there appears to a shortfall in the science of the article you provided a link to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine


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