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 Post subject: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 20:03 
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It has emerged that some conservative folk in Israel disaprove of a famous Jewish model, Bar Rafaeli's plans to marry a non Jew, who happens to be actor Leonardo Decaprio, purely on the grounds that their children will have diluted Jewish blood. They are trying to appeal to her ethnic loyalty to persuade her to pull the plug on her engagement and marry a Jewish boy instead.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1156057.html

This is very similar in concept to the philosophy of South African apartheid is it not?


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 20:51 
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And to Hitler's dare I say? How ironic.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 22:09 
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South Africa's apartheid was prompted by economic and political fears that the white minority would be swamped by the native Africans, blood lines had nowt to do with it, hence the number of mixed race children of white fathers.
The Jewish group on the other hand are part of the majority in their State and their stand is mainly religious; they have no fear of being swamped by Di Caprios. There is no state coercion in Israel to marry within the majority community.

So the answer is that it is not similar in concept at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 23:02 
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christine

I'm sure we've all known racists and pockets of racists over the year who didn't want a Catholic in the family, or someone Irish, or an Abo, or any of the nationalities lumped into the wog category. Why should it surprise anyone that some of these people exist in israel or any other culture. Wasn't there one of these so called honor killings in the US in the last year or so, where a family murdered the teenage daughter because she had the temerity to just date a non Muslim youth.

What happens if Prince William marries a Catholic girl who refuses to convert. What happens to the law of succession with regard to their children.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 23:15 
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It doesn't really work to take a small group of nuts and extrapolate what they say to some national policy. If the small group of nuts are in power in your federal government, then it's a different issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 23:27 
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Yes Kookaburra I am more than familiar with racism at very close quarters, its about their colour, their religion, or their gross ways but this is about breeding children with diluted blood! Its the lost pedigree part that seems wrong, something we would normally associate with buying a dog.

Patrick
Lets hope these people stay a minority in Israel and never do become the government.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2010 23:39 
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The attempt to preserve homogeneity of cultural and religious values by forbidding intermarriage of people with opposing beliefs is part of human nature , not a praiseworthy aspect of our species . I hope that Leonardo and his future bride find happiness and neither feel they have to renounce their faiths in order to marry . Everyone else needs to mind their own business and let them to get on with their lives.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010 07:59 
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It doesn't really work to take a small group of nuts and extrapolate what they say to some national policy. If the small group of nuts are in power in your federal government, then it's a different issue.


Where did anyone say this was national policy? Because if someone did, they are right. To quote Haaretz:

Quote:
The most prominent example of a country that refused to allow Jews to marry non-Jews was Germany, when it enacted the Nuremberg Laws. While Israel makes sure it doesn't disengage entirely from the rest of the world by recognizing marriages outside its borders, marriages between Jews and non-Jews here are forbidden. Now, in an effort to address the "problem" of those who immigrated to Israel under the Law of Return but are refused status as Jews by the state, these people will have the option of entering a state-sanctioned covenant with their spouse, but only if the spouse is also classified as a non-Jew.

[...]



Racism is rife in Israel. For example, , another report:

Quote:
Among Jewish respondents, 55 percent support the idea that the state should encourage Arab emigration from Israel and 78 percent oppose the inclusion of Arab political parties in the government. According to a Haifa University study, 74 percent of Jewish youths in Israel think that Arabs are "unclean."


(I think that identifying someone as unclean based on ethnicity qualifies as "racism" and 74% as "rife").

About a fifth of Israel's population is made-up of Arabs and, on average, their families have been there far longer than those of the non-Arabs (mostly Russian, European, North African and Middle-Eastern Jews).

Or here is another article, concerning education:

Quote:
The document, penned by the Association of Civil Rights in Israel and the Ir Amim non-profit organization, indicates that the eastern part of the city lacks some 1,000 classrooms, and that half the classrooms and preschool facilities there do not meet health and security standards.

Moreover, over 5,000 school-age students in East Jerusalem are not registered for school.

"You can see some of these children lifting cases in Mahane Yehuda market, and some others sell cigarette lighters at intersections," said Meretz city council member Meir Margalit.

"There is a law for mandatory education - the state cannot sit quietly when thousands of students are unaccounted for," he added.

The report states that 30,000 other students are forced to seek private education due to a lack of public schools.

Figures obtained by Haaretz show a deep discrepancy between the education systems' budgets in East and West Jerusalem.

Last year, NIS 577 was spent on each primary school student in the predominantly-Arab eastern section of the city, compared with NIS 2,372 for a student in the mainly-Jewish western part. In preschools, spending per student in West Jerusalem was 2.7 times that of East Jerusalem, and in special education 2.5 times.

Sources at the Jerusalem municipality said recently that the city is seeking to close those gaps.


Sadly, the nuts are in power. I'm surprised you assumed otherwise. Is it unexpected that a Jewish State creates laws that treat people differently based on whether or not they are Jewish? I would expect the same from a Christian State or a Muslim State.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010 09:16 
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It is interesting that the Catholic Church whilst not forbidding marriage between different races does have a number of rules regarding the religious persuasion in which children must be brought up. One that particularly springs to mind requires one party to a marriage to marry in the Church of the other partner and for any children to be raised in that partner's Church. I wonder could this ever be ethical ?


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010 16:20 
Some countries require that parents who were both born in that country, must select names for their children that are from the government's approved list.

This can be seen as a good means of maintaining a degree of one's country's traditions, or it could be seen as state oppression. The ethics depending upon one's perspective of course. It's quite interesting and I should one day try to research the actual justification. (I have tried to be very careful to put in the correct possessive apostrophes.)


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010 21:53 
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Samuel

Quote:
It is interesting that the Catholic Church whilst not forbidding marriage between different races does have a number of rules regarding the religious persuasion in which children must be brought up. One that particularly springs to mind requires one party to a marriage to marry in the Church of the other partner and for any children to be raised in that partner's Church


I think you'll find that rather toothless, uninforcable requirement went out years ago. Sometime between Vatican II and the dawn of the 21st Century.

The one I found intersting of late dealing with the catholic Church is that the requirement for Godparents at baptisms only requires one to be a Catholic.


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 Post subject: Re: Tainted blood through interbreeding not allowed
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2010 23:13 
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Kookaburra,

Quote:
I think you'll find that rather toothless, uninforcable requirement went out years ago. Sometime between Vatican II and the dawn of the 21st Century.

The one that I was thinking of is alive and well and is designed to protect minorities from becoming Roman Catholics.


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