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 Post subject: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 02 Jul 2010 20:50 
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. . . seem to be in the news again and the one quoted was particularly viscious.
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Victim critical after Sydney home invasion GEORGINA ROBINSON SMH.
July 2, 2010 - 9:19AM

A man is fighting for life in hospital after having his wrists and ankles slashed during a terrifying home invasion in Sydney’s south-west last night.

The 25-year-old was at home with his girlfriend, mother and stepfather when four men armed with a machete, an axe and a knife burst into the family's Clingan Avenue, Lurnea, house about 11.45pm, police said.

The men, dressed in black, slashed the 25-year-old's wrists and ankles and left him with knife wounds to other parts of his body, Liverpool Local Area Command duty officer, Mark Wall, said.

The four attackers then fled. Inspector Wall said it was not known yet whether they took anything from the home.

The man's 47-year-old mother, 56-year-old stepfather and 25-year-old girlfriend were not hurt, Inspector Wall said.

A family member called triple-0. The man was taken to Liverpool Hospital where he remains in a critical condition, police said. . . .
Inspector Wall said investigators did not believe they knew their attackers.

Anyone with information on the incident should contact Liverpool Police via Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

smh.com.au

Does society/the Government owe citizens some protection from this sort of occurrence?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 11:22 
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I think I know were are going with this discussion.

OK, I'll admit that possibly there could have been a better outcome for the victim if the family involved in this horrendous crime had possessed a gun and been able to use it to disable the intruder.

Many times the home invaders are known to the victims and drugs are often involved, although this is said not to be the case in this instance.

Why is a person's home not sacrosant like it once was. What has changed?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 13:24 
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I think I know were are going with this discussion.

The direction that I'd like to see it go is in finding a practical solution that would see families safe from home invasion and in finding if there is some ethical solution to the problem.

It may come down to the vexed question of just who is responsible for the safety of the ordnary law abiding person and if we can find that, then why they are not carrying out their responsibilities.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 14:41 
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Who is responsible for the ordinary law abiding person?

I think we are responsible for ourselves & and our families. It is a matter of realising things are not like they once were in this country & putting better security in place.

Simple things like deadbolts, security screens, sensor lights, alarms. Others may say, 'we shouldn't have to go to those extremes', but unfortunately we do. If we want to feel safe in our homes. I am not going to wait until the Government does something.

We had Crimsafe installed right around our house, even on the second level. And I feel safe. I didn't like having to do this, but it is a fact of life now that you have to be more careful. And the cost is worth the peace of mind.

And at least I can sleep soundly at night.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 16:31 
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Just what is Crimsafe and what does it cost and how easy is it to get out of your house ?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 17:08 
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Crimsafe is a stainless steel mesh for windows & doors, even resistant to machete attack. It is actually bolted onto the surrounding window frame. The doors are security strength.

As for getting out, I worried about that myself, the windows you could not remove from the inside. We have a door outside on each level of our house though (tri level), & the doors only require a key (the key remains in the door, on the inside, on the top level). I made a decision that the risk of fire was less than the risk of burglary or home invasion.

I have no young children at home now, so 'getting out' may be a concern if you do. Some other form of security may be better when young ones are around. The whole house cost about $7,000, not cheap, but when I considered that some people pay 4 times that for a new kitchen, I didn't mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2010 18:32 
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The victim in this story has died as a result of the injuries received. My sympathies to his family and friends but I feel sure more will be revealed.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 01:20 
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Samuel: "The direction that I'd like to see it go is in finding a practical solution that would see families safe from home invasion and in finding if there is some ethical solution to the problem."

A. Don't get involved in the drug business as a customer or a vendor. In most of the home invasion cases I read about, drugs are an issue. The victim is a dealer and the attackers want the stash and/or cash. Or, the victim owes money for drugs.

B. Keep your home reasonably secure and then use what security features you have. Where I lived the police would do a home security survey for free. It started with landscaping for security, lighting for security, securing your doors and windows, and a discussion of living securely. It doesn't do much good to have an expensive and effective deadbolt if you open the door to everyone who knocks.

There are random nuts, almost never gangs of random nuts, and the crimes have a logical motive. Removing to motive is a good idea. We had an ethnic minority who kept large sums of money, diamonds, and gold at home. It was a cultural thing. They had home invasions by gangs of people of the same ethnic background as themselves.

Like Phil, I believe there is more to this story but whether we'll hear it or not is questionable.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 08:10 
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Logically, shouldn't we act to protect ourselves from the greatest risk? Which is more likely, the chance of being murdered in a home invasion or being struck by lightning? (lightning related incidents get 5-10 yearly in Oz) Other statistics on other risks. Homicides about 300, road accidents about 1500, heart attack over 50,000. The most dangerous weapons in this country are a knife and fork, why are people allowed to have them without a permit?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 13:42 
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I've had a look at Crimsafe and it would certainly slow down the average thief etc., but only the average; any criminal who really wanted to get in would get through Crimsafe and be inside in under 5 minutes. On many homes Crimsafe could be by-passed to gain entry.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 14:05 
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From today's 'Sun-Herald':
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A SYDNEY security guard's connections to members of an outlaw motorcycle gang are being examined by detectives investigating his machete murder.
Liverpool police commander Superintendent Gary Worboys said ''butchered'' was the only way to describe the wounds suffered by Kesley Burgess, 25, during a home invasion at Lurnea in Sydney's south-west.

Four men in dark clothing used machetes and axes to chop into Mr Burgess's wrists and ankles.
''His left wrist was all but amputated,'' Superintendent Worboys said yesterday.
The intruders broke down the front door of the house in Clingan Avenue about 11.45pm on Thursday, shortly after Mr Burgess's brother Jacob had left to celebrate his 20th birthday with friends.
Inside the house with Mr Burgess, who died from his injuries in Liverpool Hospital on Friday night, were his 25-year-old girlfriend, Krysty, his mother, Tracy White, 47, and her partner Gary, 56.

Mrs White returned to the crime scene yesterday with relatives.
Reeling from the blood-soaked scene inside, the family swiftly gathered some clothes then headed off in search of a motel.
Before leaving, the family ushered The Sun-Herald inside and Mr Burgess's eldest brother Terence asked: ''Have you ever seen anything like this? Kesley was just trying to protect his family and they chopped him to pieces.''
Shedding further light on the incident, he said: ''My mother's partner Gary went to the door, thinking it was our youngest brother who'd probably forgotten his key. As he went to answer, this bloke has kicked it, knocking Gary out cold.''
He added: ''They've then gone down the hallway towards the bedroom and mum's come out. Straight away, one of them had a swing at her with a machete, which fortunately just scraped her hand.

''Kesley pushed mum and his girlfriend into the bedroom. He knew they were in danger - he wanted to protect his family and so he's tried to fight these people off … He never stood a chance. They were savages. As far as I know, our family have no idea who any of them are.''

Superintendent Worboys said the attackers, described as Pacific Islander in appearance, made threats as they inflicted the wounds on Mr Burgess.
Keith Burgess, Kesley's grandfather, said his dead grandson was ''a quiet boy'' who had previously worked as a security guard at a hotel known as a haunt for bikies.

Superintendent Worboys confirmed police were looking at bikie connections. But police have also refused to rule out links with two other home invasions in the area, one at Warwick Farm the same night and another at Green Valley earlier in the week.

Last Sunday three men armed with a pistol and an axe terrorised seven people during an 11pm home invasion at Cabramatta during which a woman, 65, was tied up and a man, 30, was kicked in the head.

Undoubtedly more will come to light, either positive or negative, but none the less people ought not to have to fear home invasions or to turn their homes into fortresses.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 14:07 
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Inside the victim's home: Sun Herald 4-7-2010
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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 21:15 
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“Home invasion” isn’t a well-defined term, but I think we can distinguish it from the burglary of an empty house (or a house thought to be empty), and also from a burglary of a house which is or may be occupied, but where the burglar tries to enter, steal and leave without detection. “Home invasion”, to me, suggests a crime in which one or more people break into a house, not seeking to avoid detection, either with a view to attacking the occupants, or with a view to stealing and a willingness, even desire, to attack the inhabitants along the way.

Couple of points:

First, despite what we may think, it’s not a modern phenomenon. I grew up in a nineteenth century house built on the (then) outskirts of the city, which had a front door made of solid oak, four inches thick, and permanently cemented-in cast iron bars on all the ground floor windows (which of course were a real fire hazard). Why would we reckon that was? And it wasn’t an unusual house, or built in a particularly lawless area. That kind of fortification was fairly typical, and for good reason.

Secondly, it’s not a crime primarily motivated by the desire to acquire property. If you want to steal stuff, your enterprise will be much more productive if you break into empty houses, or successfully avoid detection.

My guess would be that most people who carry out home invasions are:

(a) mainly aiming at the occupants, in pursuit of a feud, or settling a grudge, or engaged in “payback” of some kind; or

(b) desperate; or

(c) high.

(And I suspect there’d be a fair degree of overlap between the last two categories.)

Given this selection of motivations, I doubt that making more firearms available would deter many home invasions. It is more likely to have the effect of meaning that more home invaders go armed, with generally worse results all round.

If we are interested in reducing home invasions, I think it would be more effective to look at the factors that contribute to home invasions, of which the biggest would be drugs, and organized (or semi-organised) crime.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2010 21:50 
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Given this selection of motivations, I doubt that making more firearms available would deter many home invasions. It is more likely to have the effect of meaning that more home invaders go armed, with generally worse results all round.

I thought that most, if not all, home invasions were carried out by armed criminals. Certainly in the one cited they were armed.

On the TV news tonight it was stated that a 19 year old male had been arrested and charged in connection with it.
---------------------------------------------
Quote:
First, despite what we may think, it’s not a modern phenomenon. I grew up in a nineteenth century house built on the (then) outskirts of the city, which had a front door made of solid oak, four inches thick, and permanently cemented-in cast iron bars on all the ground floor windows (which of course were a real fire hazard). Why would we reckon that was? And it wasn’t an unusual house, or built in a particularly lawless area. That kind of fortification was fairly typical, and for good reason.

I wouldn't think that that house was typical. The area that I grew up in, Auburn (NSW), was a working class suburb where it was rare to find a locked door; and in the country town of Uralla where doors were also unlocked, in fact my Uncle Pat's house didn't have any provision for locking the back door, there was a lock on the front door but it was never used. It was a 'store bought' door so it probably came with a lock.
I do remember my Aunty Mary's revolver on the kitchen mantlepiece.
---------------------------------------
I might add that the bars on your windows were malleable iron not cast iron, the which would not stop anyone who had a hammer (just being pedantic ;) ) and most 19C doors in Australia are either cedar (for the better off) or Californian redwood (less costly but looks like cedar) or plain old oregon pine from the US of A and later jarrah from West Oz.
Oak is rare and costly being imported from England. Maybe the house was fortified to keep out the Peelers?


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2010 12:51 
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Hi Samuel

Samuel wrote:
I thought that most, if not all, home invasions were carried out by armed criminals. Certainly in the one cited they were armed.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. By “armed” I meant “armed with firearms”. You post two accounts of home invasions; neither involved firearms, although the second account does refer at the very end to a third invasion which did.

My point is that, if we fuel these home invasions by issuing one or both factions with firearms, the likely outcome is worse, not better. Given the factors that I think drive home invasions, I don’t think promoting an arms race would have a good outcome.

Samuel wrote:
I wouldn't think that that house was typical. The area that I grew up in, Auburn (NSW), was a working class suburb where it was rare to find a locked door; and in the country town of Uralla where doors were also unlocked, in fact my Uncle Pat's house didn't have any provision for locking the back door, there was a lock on the front door but it was never used. It was a 'store bought' door so it probably came with a lock.
I do remember my Aunty Mary's revolver on the kitchen mantlepiece.
---------------------------------------
I might add that the bars on your windows were malleable iron not cast iron, the which would not stop anyone who had a hammer (just being pedantic ;) ) and most 19C doors in Australia are either cedar (for the better off) or Californian redwood (less costly but looks like cedar) or plain old oregon pine from the US of A and later jarrah from West Oz.
Oak is rare and costly being imported from England. Maybe the house was fortified to keep out the Peelers?

Every house on the street was the same. They were all built between about 1840 and 1870. The oak would have been Irish oak, or possibly American oak, which was just coming in at the time. This was on the outskirts of Dublin, and only a couple of hundred metres from a police barracks. The fear at that time and in that place would not have been of political violence. And, as for locked doors, I suspect the doors were mostly unlocked during the day, but they were mostly locked at night. (That was certainly the way when I was growing up.)

As well as the bars (not cast iron, as you rightly point out), all the windows had wooden shutters, secured by iron bars. The shutters themselves served to keep the room warmer at night, but the heavy iron bars had a different function.

Your point about the country town is interesting. Home invasion today is in fact almost entirely an urban phenomenon, and I suspect it always was. In fact, it was only as the spread of the city reached the place where I grew up that the police barracks was built and the houses began to be fortified. If you want to avoid a home invasion, apart from not involving yourself with organised crime, not keeping drugs on the premises and not incurring unsatisfied drug debts, the best thing you can do is go and live back of Bourke.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2010 21:14 
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Peregrinus,
Neither Dublin or Bourke were good examples.
Dublin in the time frame that you give was in a country where revolutions were a close memory, the 1798 Rising and Emmet's 1803 attempt. The 1848 Rebellion closely followed the Great Famine of 1845-47 along with the unrest that followed. The population of 8 million was reduced to some 5 million and many thousands of those that were left were desperate. I'm not surprised that anyone on the outskirts of Dublin, affluent enough to build a house fitted it with iron bars on the windows, however I've never seen an iron barred window on an Irish farmhouse.

Well back of Bourke might be OK but Bourke itself has a very high crime rate although it has fallen somewhat this year. (see NSW Crime Statistics).


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2010 12:22 
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Samuel wrote:
Peregrinus,
Neither Dublin or Bourke were good examples.
Dublin in the time frame that you give was in a country where revolutions were a close memory, the 1798 Rising and Emmet's 1803 attempt. The 1848 Rebellion closely followed the Great Famine of 1845-47 along with the unrest that followed. The population of 8 million was reduced to some 5 million and many thousands of those that were left were desperate. I'm not surprised that anyone on the outskirts of Dublin, affluent enough to build a house fitted it with iron bars on the windows, however I've never seen an iron barred window on an Irish farmhouse.

Well back of Bourke might be OK but Bourke itself has a very high crime rate although it has fallen somewhat this year. (see NSW Crime Statistics).


Ireland was strikingly peaceful in the middle years of the nineteenth century. The 1848 rebellion which you mention did not affect Dublin at all. In fact it was entirely confined to the village of Commons, in County Wexford, and even there it lasted only 24 hours. Despite the dislocation it caused, the famine did not lead to criminal unrest; historians comment frequently on this, with varying degrees of surprise. It was another generation before there was significant rural unrest, in the Land War of the 1870s.

The famine was a rural affair, but crime rates at the time and for many years after were much higher in Dublin than in the countryside. Even the Dublin crime rates, though, were lower than the crime rates in British cities at the same time. The iron bars, heavy doors, etc that characterised the house I grew up in were typical of urban houses built in Britain at the same time. The British, too, feared urban home invasions.

My point is that home invasion – like so many other crimes that we worry about today – is not a new crime; it is in fact probably less prevalent than it used to be. (It’s hard to be sure about this, since “home invasion” is not a criminal offence as such, and so doesn’t turn up in the police and court statistics. In fact, I had never heard the term until I came to Australia. Rather, it’s a particular combination of offences – breaking and entry, assault, robbery with violence.) But home invasions are much more widely and sensationally reported than they used to be, which no doubt is part of the reason why we worry about them more.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2010 13:35 
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All of what you say is true, however, what were the perceived dangers of the time?
People in Australia did not have the same fears, hence it is usually only the cellar windows that are barred on older large Australian houses, to stop theives creeping in and to stop household staff fom passing large stuff to their mates.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2010 13:37 
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Samuel, you'll be happy to hear I don't live in fear of home invasion and I haven't turned my home into a fortress.

When you talk about a determined person getting into a secured home in five minutes that presumes the person has a specific reason for getting into your home. Usually, all you have to do is make you home more difficult to get into than your neighbor's home.


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 Post subject: Re: Home Invasions . . .
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2010 15:35 
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Patrick,
Perhaps the degree of security indicates the potential pickings; I have heard/known of well and ostentatiously secured houses being broken into when the next door houses had no security whatsoever. I lived in a rather rough part of Sydney for some years and never had a bit of trouble. I was once cleaning my revolver at the kitchen table when there was a knock at the front door, there was a youth there who asked if he could have a drink of water whilst peering around me to see the interior of the house. I invited him in, took him to the kitchen and gave him a driink of lemonaide. He just managed to keep his eyes in his head at the sight on the table, gulped down the lemonaide, mumbled his thanks and got out fast. Bet he told all his mates :lol:

The only other security measure that I employed was to leave some writing material on the kitchen table along with Tim Pat Coogan's 'The IRA' and a useless Mauser rifle in plain view in the corner, anyone who looked in the window may have drawn the conclusion that this was not a house to break into. Sadly this couldn't be done now because all useless and unuseable firearms have to be kept under lock and key along with the functionable ones. Anyone who looked in this particular window would have been up to no good because it opened onto a dead-end 'light and air' passage between two terrace houses and the only access to the passage was through private property.


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